Nuxersopus: @Brollyhero93: Judging from his overal art-style and the fact that he always drew some random guy fucking AJ, I dare to say those hands belong to a male.
Roflcakes: Yeah guys, you're right... The typecast, walking stereotype Southern-American character is actually really interesting and deep. *stifles laughter*
Roflcakes: @Franky_Whiskey: They're all considerably more developed than AJ's stereotype is though... She'll never be written as anything other than a yokel, and that annoys me to no end because she'd be a much more interesting character if the writers stopped relying so heavily on GOOD OL' SOUTHERN B'HAVIOR.
And hey, if we're talking about character traits, Twilight's are much more desirable imo. Intelligent, studious, resourceful and humble, as well as being sincere and polite.
Franky_Whiskey: @Roflcakes: The first three adjectives, yeah. But she's too proud, has lied and manipulated folks before, and she doesn't always has the best manners. And yeah, dem writers never are gonna develop Applejack, because she's outside the role models of little girls. everyone wants to be a wise professor, the number one, the soul of the party, the successful designer, or the kind veterinarian.
Roflcakes: @Franky_Whiskey: You're right about her manners sometimes not being up to scratch (dat social anxiety) and her tendency to tell white lies, but I'd hardly say she's too proud. In fact, she often goes out of her way to play down her own skills so she doesn't come off as a braggart. That doesn't really exemplify someone who's "too proud".
It's funny though, you'd think the writers would want to promote diligence with AJ just as much as they promote studiousness with Twilight, yet AJ is so often underutilized in that regard, no doubt due to what you said about her being unappealing to little girls as a role model.
Anonymous3(2): @Roflcakes: Pray tell, what's so good about human+pony, other than it pissing me off? I don't remember this being a thing two years ago. T'was a merry time back then. That was also before every bandwagon became worn down to the ground, like Lyra and her sitting (turned Lyra and humans).
@Roflcakes: I see calling things stereotypes is the trendy thing to do nowadays. Of course she is an "OL' SOUTHERN" pony, she is of that archetype. Almost every character will look shallow when you take their archetype and proclaim it their only personality trait.
Your second comment is more on the point.
@third comment
Twilight is(/was) overzealous in her studies and is the main character, so it makes sense that her themes are felt often - and I'm not sure when they ever promoted studiousness.
I'm not sure if you guys are trolling or you really think this way.
Roflcakes: @Anonymous: Nothing is inherently good about it, it's just something I like and would like to see more of.
No, calling things as they are actually. She's a heavily stereotyped character. Whether or not you (incorrectly) refer to it as an "archetype" or not, you cannot look past this cold, hard fact without deluding yourself. I think the reliance on this stereotype negatively impacts her as a character because it forces her so tightly into a certain role and doesn't give her any room to grow. How often does it need to be established that AJ is a "southern gal"? According to the writers, it's practically every time she makes an appearance!
Right, she's the main character, and the biggest bookworm out of all the main cast. She's designed to be a character that can be looked up to and respected. That, in itself, is indirectly promoting studiousness by painting it in positive light and showing it to be a major trait of the main character of the show.
It is the whole premise of the show. Every day she spends in Penisville is a day at school, as she's learning about friendship.
@Roflcakes: Because that's what we lack today. We want the good life but try to avoid suffering, while earthly suffering is the way to true bliss.
Her pride might be disguised, but she feels it. Rarely she acts out of genuine pure interest, instead doing all her actions to please Celestia, and in the meantime feeling proud of being her best servant. Hence why she snaps when in just one damn day she has nothing to report to Celestia. Somebody truly humble would apologize for having nothing to report, instead of pretending to still be of use. Her pride is what usually sets her apart from the other elements: instead of becoming Love, the ultimate of the elements of Friendship, she becomes Magic, thus signaling how the bond she establishes, while being emotionally honest, it is not pure. They are just bound when an enemy surfaces, not when everything is calm. Thus magic is to blame, not being a component of the soul, but an external temporary force.
Well, I've gotten too mystical with a little girls show I DON'T even watch anymore (too much work and too little time to drink!). Feel free to scrub the floor with my opinions; they're written by a madman, anyways :3
Anonymous4(2): @Roflcakes: That's cool. Your timing was very coincidental for posting your comment.
Sorry, I'm kind of touchy about this because it's a strange shift (in its becoming more common), it's not something I like, and I worry about my brony/ponyfag/"whatever you want to call yourself" communities.
Yeah, I guess it's not an archetype then, although the concept is mostly the same - just the word stereotype has a stigma attached to it. In comparison with Rarity, who would you say has their "stereotype" more often unnecessarily affirmed? It's kind of in their speech patterns, so I would say it makes sense, at least up to a point.
I see what you mean, although in that case, it comes from her position in the cast and as a framing device.
Initially she is obsessively academic; hell, in the first episode, Cool Pony Rainbow Dash plays around at her expense, in which setting Twilight is more miserable than admirable. Of course, these extremes are dulled over time.
Still, while sympathetic, her depiction isn't a celebration of the academic personality, so I feel it's not out of scale, at least in comparison to what Rainbow represents. AJ did probably get the short end of the stick, though, for one reason or another.
Anonymous5(2): @Franky_Whiskey: That made sense, even if some of the connections were kind of a leap to my puny brain. Also, Twilight was scared out of her ponypants that she'd be sent back to kindergarten if she didn't send the Princess anything - it wasn't pride fueling her breakdown. Also, friendship IS magic, thus her element "IS" friendship.
It makes me all saddy-waddy when people stop watching the show, 'cause you're all my bros in arms, who make ponying pony worthwhile!
Thrakerzod: Wait wait I wanna Jump on the writing criticism train too!
What Apple Jack's character needs is a situation of her very own that needs to be overcome by her. Like the ever popular death in the family leading to a story about dealing with grief Like what Jappleack turned into or perhaps a story about the farm being lost permanently to large conglomerate farming company after trouble with low production after a hefty loan and taxes either forcing them off their farm or making them feel the pressure of living under the thumb of a larger faceless corporate entity. making it so AppleJack is forced to grow as a character instead of staying so fucking static. Personally I'd like to see her deal with a bout of alcoholism. Unfortunately for AppleJack, most situations that would have to bring about suck changes would have to be tragic in nature, due to the stability she has in life. Because She's exactly where she want's to be in life. I guess some examples of some things that would work that aren't tragic would be Juggling responsibilities with helping her friends keep Equestria safe and her families business running which has been touched on and perhaps Getting married which my evil mind just thought could probably lead to a toy or two that could work but honestly, it's probably too late for that.
CrotchboobAddict: @Anonymous: It's easier to identify with an anon human that's banging your 'waifu'. It's probably somewhat pathetic, but it could explain it. But it's not that popular.
Anthro ponies, and I mean ponies with human bodies is more popular. Which I have a 'problem' with. It makes no sense drawing them like that, since they doesn't look like that in the show. They're fucking ponies, like c'mon.
F7G1: @Thrakerzod:
I suppose either of those would give her more chance to show depth, although I'm not confident she would grow if one of those happened to her. Say, she becomes the best Berry Punch imitator in all of Equestria, or loses the entirety of her farm (that would be also Ponyville's problem). How would the resolution of that make her grow; wouldn't it just set her back to her default self after it's over?
All this talk about things dying and being miserable makes me think of Fallout Equestria.
I didn't know the Jappleack series had such a strong theme - I thought it was just typical animator silliness -, but I'm happy to learn it does! Respect to the creator.
@CrotchboobAddict: Didn't expect anything else from the CrotchboobAddict!
I don't like anthro, either, but at least that's to be expected to appear, especially as there are quite a few furry bronies for better or worse.
Human/pony - eww, I hate that they mix these two universes to begin with. I'd much rather see pretty pony on pony action than some human/pony bullcrap.
Nuxersopus: I wanna do that thing too~
@Franky_Whiskey:
Twilight did not so much freak out about having to go to magic kindergarden, but about having to leave ponyville. The place her most bestest friends live in.
Proud? Maybe. She obviously does not want to boast (S1 episode featuring Trixie) with her abilities.
Applejack is, compared to the other main ponies, boring. Her only flaw seems to be overworking herself, while Pinkie Pie is an irresponsible insecure silly schizophreniac, Twilight a clumsy, introverted perfectionist who freaks out when something goes wrong, Fluttershy a mentally broken, sensitive, social anxious pushover with a pretty fucked up childhood, Rainbow Dash a boasting, never satisfied tomboy who expresses her thoughts too freely and Rarity is overly dramatic and rather "unique" its a pun, you are supposed to laugh
Thrakerzod: @F7G1: sorry, I recently watched all of The Maxx. So the world has to suck now.
To clarify though I'm not talking about AppleJack sucking the hooch and dealing with it as a quick "This is a thing I do now," what I'm instead talking about is struggling with alcoholism. Such as, your friends trying to wane you off the juice because they have to babysit you every time you decide to have a "good time," sitting up late staring down your personal stash as you realize drinking alone only brings you closer to your introverted thoughts and hurting those around you(accidentally) mind you and becoming cross with the idea that the people you know blame the alcohol forcing you to drink away the external thoughts and let the darkness take away reality, prolonging the vicious cycle. (okay I'm done, that went too far)
As with the loosing the farm example with that you could work with a more,fish out of water type situation, where the apple family needs to figure out how to survive. Perhaps Apple jack starts waitressing or some other blue collar job trying to just barely scrape by, missing the old stable life she'd lost but slowly learning the positive joys of her new life. Or if the farm is simply bought out by a larger conglomerate that they now have to work under, it could be more centered around learning to cope with the loss of freedom in her own life as that dominating force applies it's own set of standards and practices on your life, thus giving a message that although you may not have complete freedom you can still carry on under the larger societies imposed rules.
Anonymous11: God damn. You people read too much into the show.
Here is how I see it:
Purple protagonist pony who becomes god.
Blue loud boastful pony who shows up a lot (hence popularity).
Shy yellow pony.
White pony obviously with two voice actresses.
Loyal orange pony who disappeared in seasons 2 and 3 (hence non-popularity).
Pink pony with the voice actress who is awesome with inflections.
With that said, I do like loyal orange pony. Hopefully she appears more in Season 4.
Nuxersopus: @Anonymous: Dysfunctional people are fun. If anything thats her biggest strenghts.
@Voslar: Also this.
@Brollyhero93: Those are your beautiful hands
Anonymous12(11): @Nuxersopus: "Dysfunctional" has been twisted to mean lovably quirky. It is literally supposed to mean "unable to function properly". I'm not even talking about whatever the hell is going on here, I'm arguing semantics.
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Say that again! SAY THAT AGAIN, I DARE YOU, I DOUBLE DARE YOU MOTHERFUCKER!
Boo, human+pony.
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AJ is true raw gem. Sincere, polite, a worker, and simple. Not to mention her passion for making things right. Can't ask for more on anybody, truly...
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Besides, never asked for interesting, just what makes it a character with the most desirable traits. As in based from their actions in the show.
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And hey, if we're talking about character traits, Twilight's are much more desirable imo. Intelligent, studious, resourceful and humble, as well as being sincere and polite.
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Nobody wants to be the working farmer.
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It's funny though, you'd think the writers would want to promote diligence with AJ just as much as they promote studiousness with Twilight, yet AJ is so often underutilized in that regard, no doubt due to what you said about her being unappealing to little girls as a role model.
@Roflcakes: I see calling things stereotypes is the trendy thing to do nowadays. Of course she is an "OL' SOUTHERN" pony, she is of that archetype. Almost every character will look shallow when you take their archetype and proclaim it their only personality trait.
Your second comment is more on the point.
@third comment
Twilight is(/was) overzealous in her studies and is the main character, so it makes sense that her themes are felt often - and I'm not sure when they ever promoted studiousness.
I'm not sure if you guys are trolling or you really think this way.
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No, calling things as they are actually. She's a heavily stereotyped character. Whether or not you (incorrectly) refer to it as an "archetype" or not, you cannot look past this cold, hard fact without deluding yourself. I think the reliance on this stereotype negatively impacts her as a character because it forces her so tightly into a certain role and doesn't give her any room to grow. How often does it need to be established that AJ is a "southern gal"? According to the writers, it's practically every time she makes an appearance!
Right, she's the main character, and the biggest bookworm out of all the main cast. She's designed to be a character that can be looked up to and respected. That, in itself, is indirectly promoting studiousness by painting it in positive light and showing it to be a major trait of the main character of the show.
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@Roflcakes: Because that's what we lack today. We want the good life but try to avoid suffering, while earthly suffering is the way to true bliss.
Her pride might be disguised, but she feels it. Rarely she acts out of genuine pure interest, instead doing all her actions to please Celestia, and in the meantime feeling proud of being her best servant. Hence why she snaps when in just one damn day she has nothing to report to Celestia. Somebody truly humble would apologize for having nothing to report, instead of pretending to still be of use. Her pride is what usually sets her apart from the other elements: instead of becoming Love, the ultimate of the elements of Friendship, she becomes Magic, thus signaling how the bond she establishes, while being emotionally honest, it is not pure. They are just bound when an enemy surfaces, not when everything is calm. Thus magic is to blame, not being a component of the soul, but an external temporary force.
Well, I've gotten too mystical with a little girls show I DON'T even watch anymore (too much work and too little time to drink!). Feel free to scrub the floor with my opinions; they're written by a madman, anyways :3
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But what is true friendship but a constant harmony that spans thru the eternal ocean of time?
Sorry, I'm kind of touchy about this because it's a strange shift (in its becoming more common), it's not something I like, and I worry about my brony/ponyfag/"whatever you want to call yourself" communities.
Yeah, I guess it's not an archetype then, although the concept is mostly the same - just the word stereotype has a stigma attached to it. In comparison with Rarity, who would you say has their "stereotype" more often unnecessarily affirmed? It's kind of in their speech patterns, so I would say it makes sense, at least up to a point.
I see what you mean, although in that case, it comes from her position in the cast and as a framing device.
Initially she is obsessively academic; hell, in the first episode, Cool Pony Rainbow Dash plays around at her expense, in which setting Twilight is more miserable than admirable. Of course, these extremes are dulled over time.
Still, while sympathetic, her depiction isn't a celebration of the academic personality, so I feel it's not out of scale, at least in comparison to what Rainbow represents. AJ did probably get the short end of the stick, though, for one reason or another.
It makes me all saddy-waddy when people stop watching the show, 'cause you're all my bros in arms, who make ponying pony worthwhile!
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What Apple Jack's character needs is a situation of her very own that needs to be overcome by her. Like the ever popular death in the family leading to a story about dealing with grief Like what Jappleack turned into or perhaps a story about the farm being lost permanently to large conglomerate farming company after trouble with low production after a hefty loan and taxes either forcing them off their farm or making them feel the pressure of living under the thumb of a larger faceless corporate entity. making it so AppleJack is forced to grow as a character instead of staying so fucking static. Personally I'd like to see her deal with a bout of alcoholism. Unfortunately for AppleJack, most situations that would have to bring about suck changes would have to be tragic in nature, due to the stability she has in life. Because She's exactly where she want's to be in life. I guess some examples of some things that would work that aren't tragic would be Juggling responsibilities with helping her friends keep Equestria safe and her families business running which has been touched on and perhaps Getting married which my evil mind just thought could probably lead to a toy or two that could work but honestly, it's probably too late for that.
Anthro ponies, and I mean ponies with human bodies is more popular. Which I have a 'problem' with. It makes no sense drawing them like that, since they doesn't look like that in the show. They're fucking ponies, like c'mon.
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I suppose either of those would give her more chance to show depth, although I'm not confident she would grow if one of those happened to her. Say, she becomes the best Berry Punch imitator in all of Equestria, or loses the entirety of her farm (that would be also Ponyville's problem). How would the resolution of that make her grow; wouldn't it just set her back to her default self after it's over?
All this talk about things dying and being miserable makes me think of Fallout Equestria.
I didn't know the Jappleack series had such a strong theme - I thought it was just typical animator silliness -, but I'm happy to learn it does! Respect to the creator.
@CrotchboobAddict: Didn't expect anything else from the CrotchboobAddict!
I don't like anthro, either, but at least that's to be expected to appear, especially as there are quite a few furry bronies for better or worse.
Human/pony - eww, I hate that they mix these two universes to begin with. I'd much rather see pretty pony on pony action than some human/pony bullcrap.
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@Franky_Whiskey:
Twilight did not so much freak out about having to go to magic kindergarden, but about having to leave ponyville. The place her most bestest friends live in.
Proud? Maybe. She obviously does not want to boast (S1 episode featuring Trixie) with her abilities.
Applejack is, compared to the other main ponies, boring. Her only flaw seems to be overworking herself, while Pinkie Pie is an irresponsible insecure silly schizophreniac, Twilight a clumsy, introverted perfectionist who freaks out when something goes wrong, Fluttershy a mentally broken, sensitive, social anxious pushover with a pretty fucked up childhood, Rainbow Dash a boasting, never satisfied tomboy who expresses her thoughts too freely and Rarity is overly dramatic and rather "unique" its a pun, you are supposed to laugh
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Zing.
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To clarify though I'm not talking about AppleJack sucking the hooch and dealing with it as a quick "This is a thing I do now," what I'm instead talking about is struggling with alcoholism. Such as, your friends trying to wane you off the juice because they have to babysit you every time you decide to have a "good time," sitting up late staring down your personal stash as you realize drinking alone only brings you closer to your introverted thoughts and hurting those around you(accidentally) mind you and becoming cross with the idea that the people you know blame the alcohol forcing you to drink away the external thoughts and let the darkness take away reality, prolonging the vicious cycle. (okay I'm done, that went too far)
As with the loosing the farm example with that you could work with a more,fish out of water type situation, where the apple family needs to figure out how to survive. Perhaps Apple jack starts waitressing or some other blue collar job trying to just barely scrape by, missing the old stable life she'd lost but slowly learning the positive joys of her new life. Or if the farm is simply bought out by a larger conglomerate that they now have to work under, it could be more centered around learning to cope with the loss of freedom in her own life as that dominating force applies it's own set of standards and practices on your life, thus giving a message that although you may not have complete freedom you can still carry on under the larger societies imposed rules.
also your waifus will never have sex with you.
/caseclosed
/endofargument
/shutdowneverything
Those beautiful hands CANNOT belong to any man! >:(
Here is how I see it:
Purple protagonist pony who becomes god.
Blue loud boastful pony who shows up a lot (hence popularity).
Shy yellow pony.
White pony obviously with two voice actresses.
Loyal orange pony who disappeared in seasons 2 and 3 (hence non-popularity).
Pink pony with the voice actress who is awesome with inflections.
With that said, I do like loyal orange pony. Hopefully she appears more in Season 4.
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@Voslar: Also this.
@Brollyhero93: Those are your beautiful hands